What does the pirate party mean to you?

[Spoofy]

Clearly this particular forum suffers from a sever lack of attention (or is that apathy), so lets at least try to get whoever actually does come here to participate in some level of debate:

So my question to you, personally, is: "What does the pirate party mean to you?"

From what I've seen there has been quite a misconception as to what the pirate party can or will be. On one side of the spectrum, it being a group of people promoting piracy in all forms, demanding the abolishment of all patents, immediately and so on, whilst on the other side we have the more realistic goals of reducing the death grip that copyright and intellectual property rights legislation and owners hold against you. In addition to the increasingly orwellian way that our governments seem intent on invading our private lives.

what do you want the Pirate Party of Ireland to be all about?

[Emeralddragon]

Personally I want the party to be a control measure that the people can use to make sure the government doesnt try to screw them over. Far two often it comes down to two parties fighting it out in a government for supremecy and they easily forget the people. Usually people in the 2 parties that are warring vote erradically too so nobody truly knows what side theyre on. Id like the party to be one that is truly looking out for the average person. If we vote on a topic I want us to all vote together. We should vote one way through a prior vote on any matter so that when we gain strength we can overturn any unfair and unjust motion. I have more views but Im tired right now so i will outline them at a later date.

[dgolden1]

Hey! I resemble that remark! There has been some neglect in the post-election period, and for the past few weeks I've been setting up my own business (which would if anything give me more latitude to be politically active, but is itself highly time-consuming).

I went to the Vienna meeting in early summer, and it was interesting to see the europe-wide support, though I still have some concerns with the firm "single-issue" policy of the meta-party (i.e. PP International) in the Irish context due to the quirks of irish politics. However, I really don't think it at all sensible to call a pirate party a pirate party if it isn't adhering to something very, very close to the english translation of the swedish pirate party's principles, which are available at: http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english

[fseanb]

To me the Pirate Party means: a group of swash bucklers who care about the needs of the citizens in the country they represent. The party will/should/must fight for the children, elderly, schools, arts, education, ban on war, war on drugs, homless, healthcare, toneing down rap music, child care/suport, job secerity and job availibility... just to name a few.
I would like to see PPI become as popular as the American demicaratic and replican parties if not more so.
:?: What do you think of that and what do you think the pirate party should be?
What does the pirate party mean to you???

[Emeralddragon]

Well the swedish party does have some good points but the idea of abolishing the patent system entirely is pretty ludicrous. In some cases it does help but in others it kinda doesnt. It should be heavily reformed yes but not abolished.

The thing is we can have policies similar to the other parties and still be original by having such ideas tailored to just our country. On a european wide scale we can of course follow the swedish ideals to the letter but for country specific elections we can and should focus on what works for our countries until such time as we get in european parliament.


I would also like to add to my friend who posted above that comments such as the ones he has posted recently are exactly why the pirate party movement isnt being taken as seriously as it should be. So please fseanb get a clue already.

[dgolden1]

Well the swedish party does have some good points but the idea of abolishing the patent system entirely is pretty ludicrous. In some cases it does help but in others it kinda doesnt. It should be heavily reformed yes but not abolished.

Uh. The complete abolition of the patent monopoly system is one of the things I definitely agree with, I certainly don't consider that particular idea ludicrous. I've seen the harm patent monopolies do in the fields of software, mechanical engineering, genetics and medicine, and I have quite significant experience in the first two. A patent says "nobody else can do this thing". Perhaps the major characteristic of humans compared to other animals is our ability to observe and learn from others. Patent holders seek to deny others their humanity.

Apart from that, patent monopolies run counter to basic free market economics (any time you hear McGreevy extolling the virtues of free and open markets and the patent system, think "hypocrite".)

Nothing short of calling for the abolition of the patent system is likely to produce meaningful reform anyway - the entrenched interests likely need a sharp shock (N.B. that's based on my experiences with the software patents debacle.)

[dgolden1]

The thing is we can have policies similar to the other parties and still be original by having such ideas tailored to just our country. On a european wide scale we can of course follow the swedish ideals to the letter but for country specific elections we can and should focus on what works for our countries until such time as we get in european parliament.

I would also like to add to my friend who posted above that comments such as the ones he has posted recently are exactly why the pirate party movement isnt being taken as seriously as it should be. So please fseanb get a clue already.

I think fseanb's point, assuming an attempt at sarcasm on his part, may have been (his commenting "style"... does not help...) that my "single issue" concern, when taken to the opposite extreme of caring about everything under the sun, is also absurd. And I'd agree. But I was trying to say that despite my concerns with "single-issue", I thought it probably best for you to stick fairly closely to the focussed swedish principles.

It's very tempting to take positions on non-core issues, especially if you're opinionated and care about those other issues, and local politics tends to matter in elections in Ireland, too (of course, the multitude of crazy local issues then tend to be quietly put on hold as soon as convenient after the election is over until a few months before the next election...).

Opponents will inevitably capitalise on you not having a stance on various local issues, though. I have toyed with the idea of some local "hooks" - e.g. funding a nationwide mesh internetwork of local meshes. I don't think that's exactly at odds with pirate party policy (as a computer guy, I'm aware of how fragile and lately susceptible to imposition of centralised control and monitoring the current internet is), and a robust nationwide mesh to facilitate a basic* level of free information sharing might be inline with pirate policies. At the same time, it might stray outside the core issues.

* I would say ISPs would still have a major role as a higher-bandwidth, lower-latency service providers, the point is to encourage creation of comms channels that are more difficult for anyone to centrally control and monitor.

[fseanb]

I think fseanb's point, assuming an attempt at sarcasm on his part, may have been (his commenting "style"... does not help...) that my "single issue" concern, when taken to the opposite extreme of caring about everything under the sun, is also absurd. And I'd agree. But I was trying to say that despite my concerns with "single-issue", I thought it probably best for you to stick fairly closely to the focussed swedish principles.

I do not do sarcasm! I am honest, truthfull and blunt. but i am not sarcastic. if we are going to be a political groups then we need to be up on the issuses that the people care about and the people dont give a hot about internet piracy or copy rights. they care about helf car, education, children, jobs, taxes and other things like that.
To me the Pirate Party means: a group of swash bucklers who care about the needs of the citizens in the country they represent. The party will/should/must fight for the children, elderly, schools, arts, education, ban on war, war on drugs, homless, healthcare, toneing down rap music, child care/suport, job secerity and job availibility... just to name a few.
I would like to see PPI become as popular as the American demicaratic and replican parties if not more so.
:?: What do you think of that and what do you think the pirate party should be?
What does the pirate party mean to you???

[dgolden1]

I do not do sarcasm! I am honest, truthfull and blunt. but i am not sarcastic. if we are going to be a political groups then we need to be up on the issuses that the people care about and the people dont give a hot about internet piracy or copy rights.

You may be on the wrong site, then. The central pillar of the pirate parties and the goal of the people who are hosting this forum is reform of copyright and patent monopoly laws.

[fseanb]

I do not do sarcasm! I am honest, truthfull and blunt. but i am not sarcastic. if we are going to be a political groups then we need to be up on the issuses that the people care about and the people dont give a hot about internet piracy or copy rights.

You may be on the wrong site, then. The central pillar of the pirate parties and the goal of the people who are hosting this forum is reform of copyright and patent monopoly laws.

then they should not be calling them selves "pirates" and they are not very political in nature. so sad.

[RHRN]

Although we obviously cannot have a stance on every single issue, I think support could be garnered if we had a stance on something topical that people are talking about such as the Banking Crisis, which has probably hit Ireland one of the, if not the, worst.

Pirate Party US has a stance on things like Healthcare, something which is apparently talked about quite alot over there.

I know we can't have a stance on Tax, and Education, and Health, and Social Welfare and everything else, but I think if we have one on something that's such a hot issue now, like the Banking Crisis and the whole Sean Fitzpatrick scandal it can help us greatly without straying too far from what we've set out to do.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

[jardenia]

The Pirates are the renegades, the ones who don't confirm to normal society, who hate the shackles and chain imposed by state based heavily on law and legislation.

People need to take control and responsibility of their own lives and have the government make rules concerning the whole nation rather than making laws to appease the masses that want everything made safe.

The pirate party should be for the people, find the things worth fighting for, find the people passionate about making the world (nation) better rather than making it safer. Encourage people to do more in their community rather than worrying out insurance. Help people to do things for themselves rather than carrying out their wishes just so that you can keep your elected seat.

[muller]

http://www.piratpartiet.se/documents/Pr ... %203.2.pdf

these should be the main principles of the irish pp, i would say if you dont agree with them you would need a different name. also run on the issues you know at the moment rather than going off on economic issues etc...

well imo!

[jardenia]

It all depends whether you want to be part of a global party fighting for global issues or fighting issues that are more closer to home.

If you want to be a proper political party then you need to be aware of the bigger picture and not just focus on small things. Extremist parties never get anywhere and to achieve something you need main stream support, and strong people who can represent the party.

[Emeralddragon]

Jardenia is correct. No party can possibly survive on any one single issue. We need to truly become a political group which means giving time and energy over to battling other issues that affect our fellow countrymen.